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TheDragonClan.com  |  The Art of War  |  Dragon Decks  |  Topic: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei « previous next »
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Author Topic: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei  (Read 1715 times)
Kakita Seigi
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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 12:10:16 AM »

Quote from: Wakari Masen
Ahhh. . . Hearing of this is great news. The past couple weeks have made it seem like MST Defensive Honor was the only thing winning.

Congratulations, and very interesting deck!


I'm delighted to see this kind of deck has showed good standing (Dishonor/Honor Switch). I bet we'll see a few MFC and TKM decks along the way too as Kotei season progresses (if not more than that), as we certainly have some solid builds there too. Smiley My gut feeling is that like most decks, they have there problems, but good and bad matchups during a Kotei can make a world of a difference.

EDIT: Actually Lucas Twyman also made Top 8 at Feeding Hills with TKM Magistrates! Smiley
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 04:02:34 AM by Kakita Seigi » Logged

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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 05:37:33 PM »

As for the Determination sepuku trick.  If you're worried about it ruining your day just paxk x1 Soul of bushido.  I had it in there in an earlier version, but most people don't run det, and the ones that do usually save them up for HK's.  Yea is another honor runner is running HK it can put a cramp in your style.  Although most honor decks don't run it with the exception of beniha crane tricks.
While I do agree that your opponent not knowing what the deck does can help, half the people I played had already heard baout the deck and were playing accordingly.  It really doesn't matter as long as your fate deck doesn't crap out.  my only loss in swiss was because he got an amazing gold start and could afford to bring someone out for full every turn, while still flooding the board with peeps and my fate AND dynasty deck not producing a card that draws cards til turn 5.  not doing anything in my turn4 limited phase cost me about 5-6 cards.  when i lost the next 2 caqrds in the fate were requisite cards which would have won me the game. 

my losses vs. Dustin in the top 8 produced similar results, along with him drawing the ONLY forewarning in his deck 2 games in a row.  in my haste for fishing out proposal i accidentally pitched a Shrine to card draw, which yet again made me 1 card off of bombing him out in game 3(game 2 i didn't see a ring/solving all game)

As to cards which could go in, dirtypolitics has floated in and out, along with SoB to stuff det.  dynasty side i've been thinking of putting the seiden sanzos back in the deck to be able to cut One more sacrifice for extra room fate side.

Had I had district governor in the deck(I don't own 1), Where it was in the holding scheme would have given me the extra turn I needed in all of my losses.  So suffice to say it should be an auto-include.

Narumi might also be able to go in place of a kisu.  both are magistrates so they can death.  narumi can stay, but most importantly you get no max hand when she's in play.  that's soooooooo key in this as you always have 10+ cards in hand every game.

I've also been mulling over ambush as many players just plain out won't attack me, making stay a dead card.  I thought about pulling saya for honami(same gold cost, honami is guaranteed extra honor loss and great with DG), but that would only leave me with x3 sammies for stay and if I pulled them for walk i only have x4 shuggies, even with the inclusion of k'mee.

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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2008, 09:16:14 PM »

Quote
As for the Determination sepuku trick.  If you're worried about it ruining your day just paxk x1 Soul of bushido.  I had it in there in an earlier version, but most people don't run det, and the ones that do usually save them up for HK's.


Right, but then that's one more card you need to fish for in your deck to pull off the bomb with full certainty. Like most things, you can probably come up with a suitable response for meta, but the hard part is trying to manage all the tricks that can get around a dishonor bomb, particularly those that stop your victory condition cold. Nonetheless, dishonor bomb is still a very viable and competetive deck. I hope you don't confuse my past statements as saying it's not, but what I am saying is that a dishonor bomb deck is also fragile. Many of the same successes and problems Scorpion have with the dishonor bomb are similar for us in the Dragon as well. Like our Scorpion courterparts, a well placed Desperate Wager can be effective too. However, being Dragon you're guaranteed an extra turn versus Unicorn, Crab, Mantis, and Scorpion militaries, which can make the world of a difference. Smiley

As for holding Determination for HKs against you, I guess I can't see why they would do that unless they feared Turn of Fortune. However, my view is that you can't have it all and like DVD Dishonor bomb decks there's a limitation to how much you can include outside of the massive card draw in the deck. Though I'm personally surprised more people aren't running Determination as it's generally effective against dishonor, negation, and redirection. 

Quote
Yea is another honor runner is running HK it can put a cramp in your style.  Although most honor decks don't run it with the exception of beniha crane tricks.


It's also fairly common in some of the MST military/honor switch decks and then you have Impromptu Duel which is fairly common to Crane, Phoenix, Dragon, and occassionally Lion, which can slow down your honor gains when they target your Masujiro. What I'm trying to say here is that honor running can be a fairly tenuous affair. I think it can be worth it in many cases, but it's a delicate balance there to win against honor decks with switch potential that play "tango" with you. That was at least my experience with it. Pretty much if an honor deck could make it to the early-to-mid 20's before I drew the bomb, I definitely had trouble. That's a downside of not having DVD as it's harder to manage your opponent's honor.

Quote
Had I had district governor in the deck(I don't own 1), Where it was in the holding scheme would have given me the extra turn I needed in all of my losses.  So suffice to say it should be an auto-include.

Yeah, I didn't have that card yet when I was testing this style deck, but it sounds like a good choice. Smiley

Quote
I thought about pulling saya for honami(same gold cost, honami is guaranteed extra honor loss and great with DG), but that would only leave me with x3 sammies for stay and if I pulled them for walk i only have x4 shuggies, even with the inclusion of k'mee.

My gut is Saya is probably the better choice. You're pretty tight as it is and I'd be wary of adding another trait to the mix which you need to rely on (Shugenja). The other thing is that Walking the Way costs gold and you're already "paying" for card draw from Sushi Stand, Shrine to Fukurokujin, and Unbiased Advice. If your thinking your economy can afford it, then it might not be a bad idea. Though you do have much less options for control if they decide to blitz (as Saya either provides lockdown or a decreased threshold for the bomb) and you would want another method to kill one of your peeps to drop the bomb.
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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 02:20:11 PM »

may i ask what determination seppuku does to interfere with ur bomb?
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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 02:46:59 PM »

may i ask what determination seppuku does to interfere with ur bomb?

It lets you seppuku away an Assigning Blame honor loss.
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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 03:05:00 PM »

may i ask what determination seppuku does to interfere with ur bomb?

It lets you seppuku away an Assigning Blame honor loss.

man i must be ... 4 some sec^^

dont know why i asked its kinda clear

thx anyways Smiley
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Kakita Seigi
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Re: Top 8, to dragon Feeding hill kotei
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 04:20:56 PM »

Yep, being able to essentially negate up to five honor from Assigning Blame with Determination can be pretty effective. Smiley
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